5 Lawyers and a mom
DH and I went out to dinner the other night. I know, wonder of wonders, but we managed it. We went to dinner with 2 other couples who are loosely connected with DH's work, and we didn't know them very well. Actually, I didn't know them at all, and DH had met them all only briefly in the past. It was a "get to know you" kind of meal, which is always a bit of a crap shoot, if you ask me. I mean, what if you get to know each other and find out right away that you have nothing in common, and actually can't stand each other? That kind of stuff makes you feel like dessert is a long time coming.
In this case, everybody was fairly pleasant and easygoing, but I did discover something very rapidly:
I was the only non lawyer at the table.
Now, when you are married to a lawyer, this happens, unfortunately, quite frequently. I'm usually the only nonlawyer at these kinds of things, as well as the only mom. However, the other night, this was not the case. The other 2 women were mothers too, but worked, full time, as lawyers.
So, when the inevitable question came, the "And what do you do, Heather?", this time put to me by a new mom who had just gone off about how hard it is to find good day care, I coudn't do it. I couldn't look her in the eye and say, "I'm a stay at home mom". I knew the minute I did, it would shut down all conversation, all relationship building, all pretense of easy going-ness, and tension would fill the room. So I just said, "I'm a speech therapist". There was the obligatory, "Oh, that's interesting," the pause as she tried to figure out what that meant, the smile, and the change of subject when she decided she didn't know what it meant and didn't really care to invest the conversational energy to find out. And that was fine--I was more willing to take the indifference I knew was coming rather than the coating of ice I knew would cover the rest of evening if I revealed the truth.
Interestingly, when I have been in this situation at a table dominated by men or older career women, I don't have a problem saying, "I'm a mom who works perdiem as a speech therapist", or "I'm at home with my son, and work occasionally." Somehow, when a man asks me what I do, I feel proud to say that I'm a mom. I know that he doesn't feel threatened by what I do, and the conversation can still continue on amicable terms. But the other night, when asked by a woman my age who works VERY full time with a 2 year old in day care because the nanny just didn't work out, I had a harder time telling her about my life in the same terms, just because I knew (or imagined) that she would feel threatened, and the conversation and relationship would then progress on a less amicable level.
I could be, perhaps, reading into the situation far more than was really there. When it comes down to it, she may not have cared about me enough at all to feel threatened by anything about me, much less threatened by who takes care of my kid. But I still felt that I couldn't tell her that I am, for the most part, a SAHM. Sad, but true.
Anybody else have similar experiences? Anyody else feel the differences between talking to men about Stay-At-Home momhood vs. women?
Dessert, by the way, was delicious. Chocoloate creme broulee(sp?), a.k.a death by chocolate. Yum!
posted by Heather O. at 2/06/2006 04:00:00 PM
25 Comments:
Heather I think most SAHM mom's have similiar expereinces. My mother is a strong proponent of women working outside the home. She is an academic and hangs with that crowd. I honestly feel that sometimes when my mother introduces me to her friends she is embarrased to say that all I do is stay at home with my kids.
Oh well...It is hard sometimes not to work outside of my home, but I remind myself that when my kids are in school I will work again, but that the time I invest in them now will be way more lasting and satisfying than any amount of money or praise or prestige I could find in the work force. (I have big problems with comma splicing...).
Thanks for sharing.
I'm about to have my 1st (child), currently work full time, and will be moving across the country during my maternity leave (due to DH,so I couldn't stay at current job even if I wanted to) ... and everybody keeps asking, "So what are you going to do after the baby is born?"...
What do you THINK I'm going to do?! I'm going to learn how to be a mommy, thank you very much! It sounds like a hecka-handful to me. I think there is definitely WAY more pressure from women than from men to do/be something besides SAHM. "You're not going to shrink into the shadow of that black hole called your own home and cease to promote the concourses of women who are out to prove that women can do everything men do, only better... are you?"
Well, at least that's what it feels like... I feel sorry for men. We aren't leaving them any role to call their own - - it's no wonder they are kinder and accepting of a woman who chooses to stay at home and raise her kids herself...
Just my thoughts.... maybe not coherent, but I try.
I have two thoughts....first, I agree that it is sometimes difficult to talk to other women about being a SAHM. But I also think it doesn't necessarily have much to do with being a SAHM. I think women are just a woman's worst enemy sometimes.
We were on fertility drugs for about 14 months, and one day a woman that I went to high school with moved into our ward. She asked me what I'd been up to and I said oh just finishing school and working since I'd returned from my mission. I asked her the same question in return and she said "Well I have three kids, so that pretty much occupies my time- you know no vacation, weekends, or benefits" I was really taken aback by this comment because I was working fulltime and spent my lunch hour in the fertility clinic! Anyone who's been there knows that isn't a terribly enjoyable lunch.
Now, since my son was born in October, I went back to visit some friends at work, and one of my female coworkers says, "So, do you just hang out all day?" Again, I was seriously disappointed in my gender, and wanted to scream and tell her the truth. But of course I didn't and allowed her to continue in her ignorant view of SAHM's...ie-sitting on the couch eating tubs of frosting and watching Judge Judy.
So my feeling is that women in general (as sad as it is to say) just don't take the time to understand what other women are going through, and obviously, I think some of us (me) aren't as open in letting people know what is really going on.
I've been in the situation you described more times than I can count. Most of the time, the lawyers, men and women, parents and non-parents, are down-to-earth enough that I feel comfortable and have a good time. I'm not shy, and usually have no problem talking to people I barely know at dinner.
Sometimes, though, it can suck. Small talk with people who don't get what I do can suck. The men who don't get it I can deal with; they most often are kind of awed that I chose to stay home with my kids -- my three, almost four kids!! (they're always commenting on the number,and seem to think we're extremely brave, if a bit scary). But I loathe trying to make small talk with patronizing women who sneer and seem to judge everything from my mom-figure (ahem) to my life choices. Of course, they may be thinking that I'm judging them, too (and I admit it's hard not too when all they seem to want to talk about is their great personal shopper at Neiman's and how fattening the food at dinner is). But it's sad and extremely uncomfortable.
Jane Clayson, gave a great talk at women's conference at BYU a few years ago. I didn't go to it then, but I heard it rebroadcast on KBYU later, I'm sure it comes on BYUTV sometimes. It is wonderful, and she talks about how we should not be afraid to say that we are MOTHER's that is what we are, everything else is secondary, whether we are working out of the home, working from the home, doing things on the side, or just being a stay home mom, we are mother's and women, and it shouldn't matter if I stay home or work, or if my neighbors stay's home or works. We need to be there for each other and our children and only we know what is best for us and our families. We shouldn't be ashamed of what we do. I have been in both places and I hate to work out of the home. I mean I really HATE it! But I know other women that hate staying home, and need that work out of the home.
Anyway here is the site to listen to Jane's talk, it really is wonderful, I wish I could have found a printed transcript.
http://www.byubroadcasting.org/womensconf/Default.asp?style=print
I always try to say, "I'm at home with my kids," in a confident, matter of fact manner. This will ultimately slow the conversation that comes my way, but as time goes on I can usually worm my way back into a conversation because after all I do, in fact, have a brain (as I know you do too, Heather.) I am always slightly amused when they seem surprised that I can somehow manage to construct a coherent sentence and even occasionally have something interesting and thought-provoking to say. (However, I also seem capable of writing run-on sentences, sorry.) Don't underestimate your ability to stay in a coversation just because others underestimate you. That's my wise proverb for the night. Now I have to go clean up doggy poopy.
I think the key here is confidence. I usually try to say with my head held high that I stay home with my daughter. Like the others said, it's their problem. I am proud of my role as my daughter's mother and soooo glad that I can stay home with her. It's sad that others can't be happy for us SAH moms.
Heather, I think you did just fine. Like one of the previous posters said, women are their own worst enemies. I too have gone out to dinner with my husband's colleuges and their spouses and have been the only mother in the group, or the only stay-at-home-mom there. As introductiosn are made, people always ask me, "And what do you do?" I am so glad I can say, "I'm a mom and it is great." But the first couple of times it was a bit nerve-wracking, especially when it was the women asking the question. From some of them I got the "huh" and others have said, "Oh, I hope I can do that when we have kids" or even "Oh, how nice." I don't feel diminished - we tried for our baby for years, she's an investment and a little wonder! I don't want to miss out!
I do appreciate, though, when people know we have kids and ask, "Do you work outside the home?" It seems more polite for some reason.
The worst is when you have to interact with the condesending attitude on a constant basis. Because I'm a stay at home mother... not to mention a home daycare to 3 other toddlers and a 6 month old.... I have the "time" to do random misc. errands and tasks. HA! And when it doesn't get done because.... well... all mothers know why it doesn't get done.... ahhh the attitude. I finally had to say, "You know what! You only work an 8-10 hour day, how about you do it. I don't have the time."
"ie-sitting on the couch eating tubs of frosting and watching Judge Judy. "
I thought that it was eatting Bon-Bons and watching soap operas.
(Oh well, as long as it's eating something chocolate and watching something that provides entertainment!)
It is sad and funny that we feel like what we do is not enough or the best job ever. I find myself in different situations saying different things about my job as SAHM. If I feel I am being judged like "of course she stays home, what else would she do?" I let the person know that I have my degree but I know the most important thing for me to do is raise my kids. But in reality I do not have much of a desire to work even when the kids are all older, I may want to get my masters but I'm not sure past that. I do know that if I was going to work I would have to get myself a wife so all of the stuff I do would still be able to get done!
What about those stay-at-home dads? Everytime I hear of a stay-at-home dad, I get pretty jealous. I enjoy my full-time job and all, but I think I'd really enjoy staying at home with my kids, taking them to school, basketball practice, piano practice, cooking dinner, cleaning, managing the house, etc. How cool is it that those men have a working-wife? If I were in that dinner situation, I'd brag about how awesome my wife is and that I get to stay home and raise our kids. I'd totally BRAG about it. I'd act like a person would be nuts to not want to stay at home with their kids and indoctrinate them with all the wonderful things this world has to offer.
Of course when the kids are older and are at school all day long, I'd probably get pretty bored. I'd probably get all the chores done early, then watch some espn classic programs, some news (maybe Judge Judy) and then I'd play chess and blog until the kids get home from school. Then we'd go play until Mom would home from work ... ahhh daydreaming is fun!
I'm a mom and a student, and surprisingly, even with my husband working at a college, I get a lot of support from those he works with about me being a mom, and wanting to stay a mom, even after I get my degree. It was actually one older women from church who said to me "Why don't you do something with you're degree?" Like taking care of children isn't enough?
I'll just be happy to have a degree, and be happy to have a lot more time to spend with them.... or do laundry.
I was a mom at home for 5 years, and I've been a mom not-at-home for about 18 months.
I always made it a point to tell anyone and everyone what I did. I still make it a point to tell everyone when they ask what I did before starting to work for my current employer. I spent five years at home with my children. People usually react by telling me how lucky I am that I could do that. It didn't feel lucky at the time, but now I think it was.
Maybe I'm just ornery and defiant. But sometimes I think fear and meekness actually encourage people to make their misguided judgements. Speak up next time!
Heather,
I'm so sorry that you're experiences with lady lawyers lead you to believe that we would be judgmental or condescending when it comes to being a mom! I know for a fact (as do most moms that work) that being a SAHM is WAYYYYYYY more work than what I do daily. But as the lawyer on the other side let me just say that there is a reverse side to this dilema. When it comes to Church culture - I'm the equivalent of the Devil. Given the choice, I'd be a SAHM in a heartbeat, even if it meant downsizing and giving up little luxuries, but DH won't hear of it (he thought he married for money - HA!). I have an equal number of horror stories from church members who say horrible (but I try to assume well meaning) things to me because I work outside the home and am not living to the letter, President Bensen's address to the Mothers in Zion. Top that off with the guilt you feel everytime your 3 year old calls you "teacher" instead of Mommy and you get my gist.
I agree that we of the female gender are way too hard on each other. In fact, its a principle I count on in jury selection. If I have a female victim, I try to pick an all male jury because I know the women will be too hard on the victim. Conversely if I have a female defendant, you know I want an all women jury because they'll be increadibly brutal. Sad but true.
Most people I tell respect that I am busy as a stay at home mom (although I am also a student and work a few hours, I still FEEL like I am a stay at home mom because my husband can take over when I leave), except, somehow, my RS president. I know she has been in my shoes (sort of) but she still seems to think that it is a simple feat for SAHMs in the branch to prepare food and serve at a funeral or at the missionary zone conference (with baby in arm) or drive someone to an appointment more than an hour away and wait for 3 hours until they are done (during napt time or lunch time or any time). I don't get that.
a spectator: would you prefer not to be asked? Just because you are asked to give compassionate service doesn't mean your RS president thinks it's a "simple feat." Should 'busy moms' be exempted from these sorts of requests to serve? The needs exist, and obviously the RS president can't do all of it herself. I'm in a position to be asking, and I sincerely want to know more about your feelings on this issue (and anyone else's).
It's interesting to see how self-esteem can be a huge factor in how one may respond to questions of SAHM vs. Working gals...Some of you say you are a SAHM, then tell all the other things (school, side-jobs, projects, old jobs, etc.) which seem like an attempt to "prove" your value...I have a friend who is one of the most enthusiastic, and confident women I know...and it is refreshing to see her not make any excuses for what she has chosen to do, and how or where to put her energies...Be proud of yourselves either way...whether defending a client, or defending your SAHM title!!
Jamisue, I love you. Thanks for being such a great mom, even if you are a lawyer (you know how I feel about lawyers ;)).
I think you're right--women are severe to one another, even when we are supposed to be one another's best allies.
Interesting thoughts about jury selection. Remind me again to never commit a crime.
You guys are making me happy I married a snowboarder.
That's one of the reasons why I hate, hate, hate to do things with people my husband works with. About half of the guys are married, half of the married ones are married to fellow doctors, and most of the other women work. As a SAHM I feel like a freak.
But, I love being a SAHM (and after 5 1/2 years I can finally, honestly say that I wouldn't want to go back to work, even if I could). Anyway, great post. I totally identify. In social situations like that I feel like I often have to draw on what I "used" to do before I had kids. And it's not like I'm ashamed of what I do, but sometimes I feel like it makes me invisible in social settings where everyone is identified by their title.
A Bachelor's in Babydom, A Master's in Mommydom, a Doctorate in Diapering? Being a SAHM-Priceless!
Being a SAHM mom for the last 13 years has simply been a luxury and rewarding experience. I say a luxury, because it is expensive where we live and we have sacrificed "things" so that I could stay at home. My husband and I have been married for 15 years and during that time, did the typical get married, finish BYU (he did) and then went on to have three children and had hubby do 2 Masters and a Ph.D. while he also worked. We both maintained callings in the church and did the traditional Mormon route of everything all at once. We also, made the choice to have me stay at home and if that was the best decision-it must have been because our children are the sweetest, most well-behaved children...who also excel academically. Am I bragging? Of course! But if you ask others they would observe this in our three kids as well. This is the rewarding part of staying at home. Our children are the proof in the pudding, so to speak.
I have always "worked" in one way or another. In the beginning I worked in the medical field for about eight years and with my first baby worked part of the time, but my husband stayed home during the first year and taught in the evening...so essentially the oldest had both parents at home at differnt times. The second and third had me home entirely, but I still worked managing the aparments we lived in for seven years. This was basically to help with our living expenses while my husband went to school. Was it all fun and roses, no of course not! But it did keep our primary objective of keeping our kids home with us. There was a span of three years, where I did not work at all....and then in this last year, as all of our kids went to school, I took on a friend's baby--primarily to help her out and secondly, because it was hard not to have a baby for me at home. I love staying at home and being with the kids. What I did not find rewarding was cleaning the house for the the upteenth time, laundry etc. Still, I realize I have had the best time of my life seeing my children grow before my eyes. I am often reminded of this as I take care of my friend's little son because I have seen his many "firsts" since he was eight weeks old (he is now 15 months old) and he calls me Mama! What a bittersweet moment that is...he is not even mine, but it constantly reminds me of the importance of staying at home with my own kids...I did not miss out anything and my kids always knew that I was there for them. And they know, now, that they will see me after school....
So, when I go to my DH's academic functions, to (sometimes)a "snoring" party where the most of the excitement in the evening is dealing about latest book on the history of the civil war or the politics on war....the conversation turns to me and the daunting question is what do you do? I proudly say, I stay at home!
Since our youngest is turning six this year, I will be blessed with at least six hours to go back to work (I intend on being home when they get home from school) or go to school or do what ever I want to do, etc. It is a bittersweet moment to not be as needed in that early stage of childrearing, but exhilirating at the same time. In some ways I can have my cake and eat it too!
So, to all those who have had a career at one time, but are now SAHM, kudos goes to you all! It is a bit of a sacrifice, but a noble one at that. Many can go to school, do a career, but to do what we do: well, there is no textbook around that will teach you all the subtle nuances of being a SAHM....Everyday is different, filled with many firsts that one would miss out if you were not home.....Just remember that!
Claire--yes, ask away. I feel, though, that my RS president only asks the sahms because she knows they have fewer chances to say no rather than asking some working women who actually could work it out (some work part time, others work on certain days, some work in the evenings). It is fewer phone calls for her just to go straight to the SAHMs [I am not just guessing this--I am in the presidency and actually know sho she asks]. Also, she is a dear woman, but tact is not one of her strong points and she fully expects, rather than asks, and that makes it very uncomfortable.
Yolanda--I did not intend to get points for myself by qualifying that I cannot be solely a SAHM. I would love nothing better. It just is not an option at the moment, and sometimes I feel like I am cheating when I label myself sahm. I am mostly a daylight sahm. Someday I hope to be a nighttime one too.
A Spectator--PLEASE do not take offense at my comment! That was NOT the intent, and I am sorry if it appeared that way. There are very few times, if any, when ANY of us are just "one" thing!! My main thought was approaching the idea of how self-esteem may, or may not, fit into the whole picture of how we describe ourselves, or view ourselves.
Yolanda--don't worry, I have 9 siblings I don't hurt easily!
It is true--I think people have a way of putting the part of them forward they sense it most acceptable to the audience (like telling a crowd of employed people about your former job rather than the current one, for which you are not paid). It might be more true to ourselves if we present the part of ourselves that is most important to us to everyone.
I like to think that I don't care what other people think of me so I don't need to worry about impressing them, but I am sure we all do at some level or another.
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